120: {Interview} From Lawyer to Mindfulness Expert: A Transformative Journey with Courtney Shulnick

In this conversation, I sit down with Courtney Schulnick, a former lawyer turned mindfulness expert. Courtney shares her journey into mindfulness, emphasizing its importance in managing stress and anxiety in a busy world. She discusses practical techniques for incorporating mindfulness into daily life, the significance of mindfulness in the workplace, and the need for mindfulness education. The conversation highlights the transformative power of mindfulness and offers resources for those interested in starting their mindfulness journey.

takeaways

• Mindfulness helps manage stress and anxiety effectively.
• It's important to notice when we're not present.
• Mindfulness can be practiced in various informal ways.
• Mindfulness education should start at a young age.
• Mindfulness can create a kinder, less reactive world.
• Breath awareness is a key component of mindfulness.
• Mindfulness practices can be integrated into daily routines.
• Mindfulness can improve workplace culture and resilience.
• Self-awareness through mindfulness can reclaim one's life.
• Resources for mindfulness are widely available online.

Connect further with Courtney on LinkedIn HERE or visit her website HERE

Transcript

Caroline Pennington (00:01.145)
Welcome Courtney.

Courtney Schulnick (00:03.05)
It's so nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Caroline Pennington (00:06.457)
So I'd love to hear your story. You're a former lawyer, turned entrepreneur and mindfulness expert. Let me hear all the things. How did you get here?

Courtney Schulnick (00:13.55)
Yeah, that's a great question. I sometimes ask myself that, how did I get here with three kids, a husband and juggling God knows what at any given moment. But in terms of my mindfulness journey, I will say that it was trying to find a sense of balance in the work that I was doing at the time I was working as a litigator. I worked for

close to two decades as a litigator. And during that time, or just before becoming a litigator, I got married. But then during my career as a litigator, we had three children. And as my plate, so to speak, became fuller, both in terms of my professional responsibilities and my role as a mom, a wife, and all the other hats that I wear, I found myself really feeling stressed out a lot of times.

and not knowing how to skillfully manage the stress and anxiety that I was experiencing. So at the suggestion of a therapist who I had been treating with to find tools and ways to find more ease and to connect more fully with the present as opposed to worrying about what's to come or beating myself up for something from the past, I enrolled in what's known as the mindfulness-based stress reduction program.

So I'll just step back a moment or so and explain for anyone who's new to mindfulness, mindfulness is our innate ability to be aware in the present moment. But oftentimes, whether we're a professional or not, or just sort of living in the world as we know it today, in all the busyness and the fast pace of life, we're often not present. We're often...

checked out or disconnected from what it is that's here. So with mindfulness, we can notice that and we can find ways to come back, to return again to this moment, to notice how we're experiencing the present. So the MBSR program, the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Program is basically an eight-week program that helps you to understand yourself more, to sort of notice how

Courtney Schulnick (02:39.148)
we can get in our own way at times and then you learn formal and informal mindfulness practices that can help you to find ease and to connect more fully with the present.

Caroline Pennington (02:40.815)
It's fine.

Caroline Pennington (02:50.819)
So what are your top suggestions? mean, we all live in a busy world. Everyone has family obligations, work obligations. Even last night, I found myself, picked up my phone at 7 PM and I was like, I'm just going to do a quick little scroll. Do scroll 36 minutes later. So how do you practice mindfulness or keep those things in mind when you, we've got all these distractions.

Courtney Schulnick (03:03.939)
yep.

Courtney Schulnick (03:13.558)
Yeah. And distraction, we say just going back to like, I don't know if you were scrolling on your phone or if you were on a laptop, but we have so many what we call devices of mass distraction. Like we get pulled away by just that, like looking at our phone, checking an email saying, I'm just going to respond to one more email. I'm just going to check out this person's profile on LinkedIn or see what this person posted on Instagram. And the next thing we know,

It's an hour, two hours later. So the key is to notice in those moments when we're not present for ourselves or for others and not to judge ourselves because in large part, it's the way we're conditioned in the society to keep doing, to not give ourselves moments to disconnect and to just be.

in a sense, it goes against the grain. But the more we can notice just how often we're not present, we're not aware, the more and more we can choose to come back. The more we can say, okay, I don't necessarily have to go to my phone in this moment. Like I can take some time to relax, to rest. So it's...

It's finding ways to not only weave in formal practice, but informally in our lives and our daily routines. How can I support myself to be here in this moment?

Caroline Pennington (04:54.575)
So who exactly is mindfulness for if anyone's listening to this podcast and they're like, okay, I've heard about it, but I'm not doing it or they're curious learning more. I should everyone be practicing it? Should just high achievers be practicing it? I mean, what's your opinion on that?

Courtney Schulnick (05:11.468)
mean, in ideal world, if everybody was more mindful of what it is they were feeling or doing, I think the world could be a much kinder, less reactive place. But I will say that the formal practice of mindfulness isn't for everyone. Some people find mindfulness in...

Like they feel like when they're drawing or painting, they're really connected with the present moment or maybe playing an instrument. They're really in the moment, so to speak. So there's different ways in which we can weave mindfulness or incorporate it into our lives. But I would say that more often than not, yes, mindfulness is innate and when we connect more fully with it,

it can really make the moments of our lives and collectively as a world that much sweeter.

Caroline Pennington (06:13.081)
So when I'm thinking about mindfulness, I'm thinking about being present in the moment, I think about to grounding and breath work and all of those things. So what types of exercises or let's say formal and let's say maybe it's only for two minutes a day, but what can someone be doing to start practicing more mindfulness in their day?

Courtney Schulnick (06:28.066)
Yeah.

Courtney Schulnick (06:34.232)
Sure, so just in terms of breath, mindfulness, I've heard this the other day. Someone said mindfulness is more chill. It's like chiller than other practices because we don't have to control the breath. We don't have to breathe in a certain way. I know there's certain types of breath work practices where you have to breathe in for a certain amount of time, hold the breath, exit for a certain, or exhale for a certain amount of time, but.

With mindfulness, we're just allowing the breath to breathe itself. So if that means in the busyness of your day, maybe you're finding that you're in a traffic jam and you need to get somewhere. And I'm sure many people can relate to this and they're noticing some anxiousness or agitation. In that moment, we can just simply direct attention to come into the body and notice where we feel the breath most easily. Maybe it's the sensation from the nostrils.

or the expansion and contraction in the region of the chest or the belly. So just in those two minutes, you can just let attention rest on what does it actually feel like. Another practice, isn't a, it's not a mindfulness practice per se, but it's an informal way to use the breath to incline ourselves in the direction of relaxation. It's the relaxing sigh. So I'm sure many of your audience members have

We've taken a relaxing sigh and it's the body's natural way to find more balance, but we just simply breathe in through the nostrils and open the mouth to let out gentle sigh. Scientific research shows that just three consecutive relaxing sighs can have a physiological effect so that we can move the body and the mind in the direction of more relaxation.

Caroline Pennington (08:27.363)
What about if you're having a bad day and you're like, just don't have enough control over my mind and my body to be practicing these things. What do you suggest to that person?

Courtney Schulnick (08:38.744)
So control is an interesting word that comes up because people often say, I cannot practice mindfulness. I can't control my thoughts. I can't control my mind. It's out of control. And with mindfulness, it's not so much about, it's not about having to get rid of our thoughts. In fact, it's about just simply noticing sort of the landscape of the mind and allowing.

allowing what's here. Like, it's just like this. We just acknowledge it and not have to buy into the things we tell ourselves. So it's not so much about control, but when we can allow our experience, whether it's our bodies are feeling unsettled or our minds are restless,

When we can allow our experience to be as it is as opposed to fighting it or striving to be some other way, just that allowing that letting be is what can invite some more ease into our lives.

Caroline Pennington (09:47.533)
that because you can, once you start to develop those self-awareness skills, you start to notice like your heart's beating faster. You're starting to get a little heated and your tone.

Courtney Schulnick (09:54.744)
Yeah.

Courtney Schulnick (09:59.438)
Yeah. And when you give yourself a hard time for that, like as someone who's grappled with anxiety, when you notice that coming over you, when you notice the rapid heartbeat, when you notice the muscles are tense or you're feeling warmth in the body, when you give yourself a hard time for that and you're thinking, I should have this under control or I should not be feeling this.

It works in the other direction. It actually stirs up more agitation. So the more and more we can be aware of how we're relating to what it is we're thinking, what we're feeling, sort of what we're experiencing in the present moment, that's what gives us choice. That's what gives us a choice in how to be with it.

Caroline Pennington (10:52.097)
And the work that you do with companies, specifically with their employees, what has been your most impactful exercise that helps out companies that have, let's say culture issues, or let's say they understand that their employees have an opportunity for personal and professional growth.

Courtney Schulnick (10:56.706)
Yeah, sure.

Courtney Schulnick (11:07.702)
Yeah.

Courtney Schulnick (11:14.572)
Yeah. So, sorry, didn't know if you froze for a second. So make sure I didn't cut you off.

Caroline Pennington (11:19.735)
No, go ahead. want to hear what works best in those scenarios.

Courtney Schulnick (11:25.176)
So there are a multitude of different formal practices and informal practices that I teach. What is so profound and what really helps these teachings to grow and to flourish is that you're learning a different skill set, so to speak, in community with your colleagues.

And not only do you learn from me in being the mindfulness teacher or the mindfulness expert, you learn and grow from each other. So people having an opportunity to process what's coming up for them, whether it's in the professional sector or in their personal lives, sort of what they're experiencing with mindfulness practice, the sharing and the discussion that takes place really takes

team building practice or experience to a whole other level. So it's really empowering, but it's also a beautiful way to cultivate a deeper sense of connection with colleagues and teams.

Caroline Pennington (12:34.563)
Why don't we learn about mindfulness in our education system?

Courtney Schulnick (12:38.954)
I ask myself that all the time. I believe that there's no such thing as being too young. mean, we're intuitively, we're instinctively, we're mindful beings, but as we get older, it sort of gets pushed to the wayside because of all the doing and the demands and our endless to-do list. But I believe that mindfulness

when it's the earlier it started, the more easily we can turn to these inner resources that are here, we just have to kind of polish them a bit as we get older. So the earlier, the better in my opinion.

Caroline Pennington (13:22.895)
So what's your top advice for someone who is like listening to this podcast episode and like, okay, I'm interested. I'm ready to start, but has no clue where to start.

Courtney Schulnick (13:33.228)
Yeah, so people can work together with me if they're curious about what mindfulness is. I offer a free 30 minute remote meeting so that people can ask questions about what mindfulness is. I mean, we talked about it a bit, but they can dive in a bit more deeply. They can get a taste of the practice where I can guide them through a brief practice and then they can find out.

If they have any specific challenges, they can find out ways in which mindfulness can support them. So that's one way. are, if you go, well, you can go onto my website, Courtney Schoenig Mindfulness, and I have a host of free resources. So you can practice, you can learn more that way. But nowadays, what's so amazing is if you just type in mindfulness meditation, there will be

so much that you can find out. The key is to just make sure that there's a lot of people putting themselves out there as mindfulness experts or mindfulness teachers. And so it's important to make sure that what you're reading or what you're practicing is legit. So yeah, there's a lot of resources. There are a lot of resources out there.

Caroline Pennington (14:53.625)
Do you have a favorite mindfulness book?

Courtney Schulnick (14:56.288)
Yes, I love Everywhere You Go, There You Are, and it's by Jon Kabat-Zinn. He is the pioneer of what's known as the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Program. And it's a really easy way to learn more about mindfulness and to, I know we're all really busy, we're strapped for time and...

Chances are you may push it off to another day, but it's one of these books where the chapters are so tiny. So if you just keep it on your nightstand and maybe before getting up in the morning to go do all it is you have to do, even if you just take five minutes to read one chapter, you're going to learn a bit. And it may just be the thing that changes your day so that you're not falling into autopilot, that you're a bit more conscious about what it is you're saying, what it is you're doing.

what it is you're feeling.

Caroline Pennington (15:56.975)
I feel like once you learn self-awareness and how to practice mindfulness, you can really reclaim your life.

Courtney Schulnick (16:03.022)
That is exactly why I'm in the position I'm in. I really felt at several points, but one point in particular before I learned mindfulness that I hit a wall and that I was sort of trapped in the work that I was doing and how do I juggle the same with being a mom and a wife and a few weeks into learning what mindfulness is and in different ways to practice.

I felt like I had been liberated. I could still have all the stressors that were very much present in my life, but I could find a more wholesome and supportive way to relate to them. In many ways, I think it is about finding how do we work with what is and when what's here is really challenging. We don't have to feel imprisoned by it. We can find ways to free ourselves.

Caroline Pennington (16:58.799)
For those of you listening, rewind this 30 seconds, because she's dropping the gold on how it can change your life. So tell me, what's lighting you up with some of the clients you're working with right now?

Courtney Schulnick (17:10.22)
What's, my goodness, what's lighting me up? So many, so many things. So I have a individual who I've been working with who has really been struggling with stress and anxiety, so much so that it's affected him with his ability to sleep. And he said that in the few weeks that he began, you know, since he's been gone,

working together with me, he has gotten some of the best night sleep that he's ever gotten. And he's finding ways to better manage the stress and anxiety that comes in large part from the work that he handles. So that's an example of a one-on-one experience that I've found to be really fulfilling in being able to help someone. But I've worked with large companies where

they're grappling with uncertainty. Like there's a change in the CEO of the company and some people don't know if it means they're going to have a job tomorrow or some people are taking on more and more so that what used to be like a certain title, they're like wearing many hats. teaching teams, teaching companies how to not only support themselves, but

how to support one another and how to actually become more resilient collectively as a company.

Caroline Pennington (18:42.575)
I love that. So how can our listeners find you?

Courtney Schulnick (18:45.518)
So listeners can find me like you. I'm really active on LinkedIn. I post a lot about upcoming offerings that I'm leading or co-facilitating with others. I work at the Center for Mindfulness at Jefferson in Philadelphia, in addition to having my own mindfulness business. So I often promote upcoming workshops and whatnot on LinkedIn. You can also find me on my website, Courtney Shulnick Mindfulness.

I'm really excited in about two weeks I'll have a new rebranded website so you can check that out to get even more resources.

Caroline Pennington (19:25.679)
Thank you, Courtney.

Courtney Schulnick (19:27.362)
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our time together and I look forward to seeing more of your posts on LinkedIn and hope that everybody enjoyed this time together.