Caroline (00:01.355)
Welcome Estelle.
Estelle Winsett (00:03.31)
Thanks so much for having me.
Caroline (00:06.091)
So tell me where you are right now and how did you get there?
Estelle Winsett (00:10.03)
I am currently in Memphis, Tennessee. I was born and raised here. And currently I have my own business and it is personal stylist or female attorneys. And I have been doing that full time since August of 23.
Caroline (00:27.307)
And so I love your story. I mean, you're a former attorney turned entrepreneur and business professional, and now you serve the exact individual that used to be in a law firm. So I want to hear all about that.
Estelle Winsett (00:39.018)
Yes. Yeah. So I definitely had that experience that I see so many women going through as a new lawyer where you're told to blend in, wear black and gray, those boxy suits that aren't flattering. You'll be known for the quality of your work, keep your head down. And I fully bought into that. And I was very bored with my style. I felt invisible. I also happened to look really young.
as a new associate, and I know a lot of my clients come to me with that same concern. It's not feeling like you have the respect and gravitas that you want as someone who is a lawyer in meeting clients. For me, I did defense work and litigation. So a lot of times I was meeting company representatives or having the partner introduce me to a company rep and just seeing the look in their eye when they didn't really think that you were old enough to be a lawyer or they even said things like that. Literally, I've had people say, are you old enough to be a lawyer?
So humiliating and so I realized that I wasn't feeling confident and powerful and how I was showing up and for me and I think I shared this with you It happened to be that law school ruined my vision So I went to an odd doctor and all of a sudden I had glasses which I never had my whole life and I walked into the law firm with my first pair of glasses and Literally the way people responded to me was a hundred percent different. I was given looks of
credibility, the partners were commenting, I like your glasses. I felt like I looked finally like the level of experience I was on the inside. And that was the first time I learned the power of style and how something as simple as simply wearing an accessory, like a pair of eyeglasses, made me look smarter, wiser, more experienced. And it was the only single thing I had changed in my appearance. And it was that when I realized, wait a minute, I'm onto something. This is so interesting.
have a tool of style can change not only others perceptions of me, but my own perception of my, of who I am. I felt better. I felt like I looked wiser as well. And so you kind of feed off that energy. If you feel like you look good, then others treat you with respect and then you earn that respect or feel like you show up better. And it's this, this whole synergy that happens that makes you feel much better about yourself and much more confident. And that's what I love doing with the women that I help is helping them step into their power.
Estelle Winsett (03:03.086)
so that their outside reflects their inside. They're already brilliant, smart women. They're just not showing up in a way that expresses that. And you also get to have a little bit of fun. You can add some personality while still looking like a lawyer. And I have all of those tricks because I practiced for seven years before the personal style route. So I know what details you can add, small or not, that can make that difference, that make you feel better and make you feel like who you are. Just kind of the 2 .0 version.
of you.
Caroline (03:34.187)
That's wild that glasses made such a difference. I would have never thought that.
Estelle Winsett (03:39.342)
It was crazy. and I, it was so palpable. Just, I could feel the difference in how people were treating me, even the judges. And it just really brought a lot to me. But then of course I got, I continued on with my practice. It was just one of those light bulb moments. and I hadn't really, I loved style before I went to law school, but law school was the death of all creativity within me. So, it really, the style piece didn't come back to me until much later in life when I learned about a brand called a cabi, which you may.
be aware of and started to really like clothes again and color and understanding that there are professional clothes out there that look good on women that don't look boxy. I ended up becoming a stylist because my cabbie stylist left the city and I needed my cabbie. So that was kind of how I got into this in the first place. And so I did that for about six years, but then it became so much more than the style and seeing my own attorney friends come to me and realize that.
they can look good. I think a lot of women try something on not in their body, you know, that's not flattering to their body shape. And as women, a lot of times we blame ourselves and think we're the problem. When all along it was just the wrong garment. It was made for someone else's body shape. You just need to find the garment. The garments have to try out for you, not the other way around. And when I would find or ask my friends to try on clothes that I knew would be more flattering in their shape, but just to see themselves, look in the reflection and feel pretty and realize that they didn't have to settle for.
not feeling good about themselves or for feeling frumpy, it just took a little direction. And so in showing them what they needed to wear, that would be the best for them, for their bodies.
Caroline (05:17.675)
So we always have heard the term dress for success and what does that mean in concept and then how do you also add in the creativity piece? So how can you dress for success and add your own personal style?
Estelle Winsett (05:33.294)
Well, to dress for success, you need to present the message you want to send to the world. And when I'm working with clients, one of the first things I ask them is what's the message you want to send? And I work with women attorneys. A lot of them are solo practitioners or have small firms and they are having to market their businesses. And so they need brand photo shoots, but they don't know how to style themselves. They don't know what colors look good on them. And so we go through.
process where we really determine what's the message you want to send to others. So for example, when I've had a client who was a family law attorney and she wanted to come across as dependable, but yet approachable because she wanted clients to feel like they could tell her everything that's going on in their marriages. Then another client I had was general counsel and she had kind of a take no prisoners mindset. She wanted to just have people know that she was the authority and not to cross her. And so her message that she wanted to send was very different.
And so I think you need to think about your environment, who you're interacting with, and how do you want to be perceived? And also how do you want to feel in your clothes? So it's a perception that others have about you and the message you send, but there's also the message you send to yourself. And when you really like how you look, there is nothing better. And it's the best way to start your day. And the confidence that you get, it's a dopamine hit. Every time you get a compliment, every time you like your reflection in the mirror.
you can stop focusing or thinking about what you wear and instead focus on your presentations, on your client work. And that's when you can really excel. So I really see style as a performance enhancement and tool that is easily at our disposal if we'll take advantage of it.
Caroline (07:18.731)
is so good because you are so right. You are much more confident in yourself and your abilities if you feel good about how you look and what you're wearing and you don't have to be all frumpy and you know square and wear these just awful dresses and jackets. You can be wear more fun stuff that is professional but also fashionable.
Estelle Winsett (07:40.462)
Right. And that's what this kind of the first part I was telling you about when I work with clients, it's about the messaging. But the second part is what are your, what are your style preferences as women? A lot of times we don't even take the time to think about that. We're just going to whatever store is closest and what's available and kind of fits. That's kind of the mindset that a lot of people have, which I get because you're busy, but then you wear those clothes that don't make you feel great. And then you don't know what to do about it because.
You haven't been trained on all the professional brands out there that work for women who are attorneys. And so that's where I really help women understand what are your preferences? Let's, let's play a little bit. And, I work with a lot of clients on Pinterest because you can find very quickly, certain themes of things you like, and then your style evolves over time. You have different preferences. That's why it's important to do a refresh, you know, at least every five to eight years, because you've changed, you've evolved. You're not the same person you were.
And when you can tap into what really lights you up, then you have a visual and a direction is kind of like your North Star. Then you make all your clothing decisions based on that so that you present a consistent message to the world. And you're in charge of your brand. You're actually creating your brand and crafting your message. And the consistency is the piece that in business is so important because you get that know, like a trust factor, because you're showing up the same way every time.
Caroline (09:04.939)
I love that you added that too because it matters even if you own your own business or if you work as a corporate employee, you are still representing yourself as a professional. I don't care where your salary comes from, you represent you.
Estelle Winsett (09:20.046)
Absolutely. You are your brand. And the other thing is you just never know how long you're going to be with a company, but you always have your professional reputation at stake and you can be yourself and present yourself professionally, whether you are an employee or not, but you're also going to be recognized as a certain leader or a go -to expert when you establish yourself as that. And that just makes you more marketable and gives you more options.
Caroline (09:46.827)
Yeah, 1 million percent. I agree. And you not talked about this earlier. That's so important. So I'm going to pivot to representing yourself online, whether it's on Facebook, Instagram, Tick Tock, LinkedIn, which LinkedIn is a social media network. Even though it's professional, it is a social media network. So why should women represent themselves as they are or use a current photo and what types of photos should they be using when they're representing themselves professionally?
on these social media platforms.
Estelle Winsett (10:18.862)
Yes, you do not need to have a photograph that was taken when you were 10 years ago that doesn't look anything like you anymore. It's very important that your photographs represent what you currently look like. If you're going to meet someone at a conference and all you've communicated with is through LinkedIn and they've seen your picture and then you show up and they don't recognize you, then that is incongruent and that is not representing yourself well. You want people to, you want to look at the way you are and.
Forget about whether or not you have a few extra wrinkles or a few extra pounds. You are who you are. You can present your best side of you, but it needs to look how you look. And this is also true in social media for those who have their own firm and their marketing to try to find clients. If you looked 20 pounds lighter and had black hair in your last photograph, but now you have gray hair and you're 20 pounds heavier.
and you're trying to find a potential client, they're gonna walk right by you. And they're not gonna feel like you're the real deal because you're not dressing or looking the way you showed up on line to look like. So super important from a trust standpoint and credibility.
Caroline (11:25.227)
So if someone's listening to this podcast now and maybe hasn't had recent branding shots or like when is the time that you need to update or how often do you need to have those done?
Estelle Winsett (11:37.486)
I think as long as you have them done, you know, every five, it could go eight years if you still look the same, but I wouldn't go much longer than that because likely you have changed how you look. And again, as I was mentioning, I think your style evolves as you do. So a great example, I always say is what you wear to on -campus interviews is not what you're going to wear as a partner. And there's nothing wrong with what you wore on on -campus interviews. It's just you're at a different stage and your appearance needs to reflect that. So I think that's really important.
And, I hate it when I see the grayed out, no photos on LinkedIn. I think people just skip right past that. If you don't have a photo, they're like, is this a real person? They think it's a bot. They don't know. And to me, I think it shows you don't care enough to present yourself in the most professional manner. And so I think it's the message you're sending when you don't even realize you're sending it, when you don't have a photo or if it's not a professional photo. So I would take the time to, if your firm doesn't do it, you can get a professional headshot with a photographer.
somewhere locally for not that much money, but the bang you get for your buck is that you're showing up as a professional and as someone who has that authority.
Caroline (12:47.755)
Okay, I'm so glad that you went there because coming from a previous executive recruiter, I wouldn't even contact the people that don't have their professional photos uploaded about potential job opportunities because the account came across as spammy or creepy.
Estelle Winsett (13:05.838)
100%. You don't know, is this a real person? Why don't they have a phone? What are they hiding? That's one of the things you think. And all these like, like literally it's a parade of horribles that probably have nothing to do with you, but your mind starts to wonder if you're not showing up professionally.
Caroline (13:20.907)
Yeah, I agree. And also why the photo needs to be represented and current is because like you said, when you have potential clients or interviews happening or whatnot, you need to look like the photo that's represented on LinkedIn or on your website so that you don't give off the wrong impression and you continue to have the know, like, and trust factor. Because if you show up to the interview or to the client meeting and you don't look like your photo or anywhere close,
that's gonna cause concern.
Estelle Winsett (13:52.398)
Absolutely, because it makes you wonder what what are you trying to hide something? Why aren't you showing up as you and a lot of my clients just say I don't want to look like I'm 20 I have earned these level in years of experience and I want all the gray and all that wrinkles to show up I think there is nothing wrong with that as a female To show your years of experience. It doesn't mean you have to look haggard, but I think that there's it's almost like stretch marks after you have kids It's like a badge of honor
I think that experience matters and it's okay to look like you're an experienced attorney.
Caroline (14:25.419)
So I'd love to get your opinion on this. Are you for or against rentals on clothes?
Estelle Winsett (14:31.598)
gosh. Okay. I was gonna say my default setting is I'm against it because I feel like it's like throwing money down the drain because you can, some of the places like Rent the Runway and No Shame to Rent the Runway, what you're paying to rent the clothes is rather pricey. And if you're a savvy shopper, you can find new pieces that aren't pre -worn.
for good deals and you can build a wardrobe instead of having to rely on Rent the Runway every month to give you the clothes you need. And so I think that looking at it as a wardrobe replacement is a bad idea. That being said, there are some times where I think renting clothes makes sense. For example, when I did my photo shoot in Paris, I rented this beautiful black ball gown that I loved.
and I was not gonna wear again or at least certainly not anytime soon. And to me that made sense because it was a really expensive dress and I thought it looked nice, but I didn't need that in my closet. So I think something like that, or if you're going to a wedding where you don't, you're not gonna wear the garment regularly, that kind of makes sense. Maybe even if you're pregnant. But again, my philosophy is you can actually, I think I even did the math once where I took, cause I did an experiment.
when I did the rent the runway for my Paris photo shoot, I did two months of rent the runway because I was like, I want to have the client experience so that I know what I'm saying. And I compared the costs that I was paying each month to rent the runway for an entire year. And I think it came up to maybe 12 or $1 ,300. And then I shopped online and found a 15 piece capsule wardrobe that had nice pieces for the same amount of money. So you could either have a wardrobe that is
high quality that is there to last, or you can use the same money and throw it down the drain. It's up to you, but I think it's important to realize what you're doing.
Caroline (16:32.715)
Thank you for that because I was curious as we're talking this out. And then when people are putting their wardrobes together or thinking about their style, do you suggest having maybe three to four staple pieces and then alternating out maybe jackets or other accessories? Kind of what's your go -to with that?
Estelle Winsett (16:51.822)
Yeah, I think that you should have a core foundational base in your wardrobe. And I think you mentioned earlier asking me if I had any guides or gifts. I do have a women attorneys guide to style that I'll give you. But in that guide, I think I listed 15 pieces to a core wardrobe. And what you're looking for in a wardrobe like that is you want to have some neutrals, which means you need some basics, some white or ivory.
blouses, you need black, you need some, you know, something that is going to blend well with others. But you also need a few of those statement pieces, which are what I call your personality pieces. So maybe that's a bold pink blazer if you like that. You've got to have enough neutrals to create a variety of outfits. The problem when you have all statement pieces, they're more fun. They're the ones you want to get at the store. But then you come back and you can only wear it a couple of ways because you don't have enough neutrals to pair with it.
So it's really a delicate balance of a blend of that. But once you have that, and I highly recommend buying the best quality you can afford on those staple pieces, because you're going to wear them over and over again, then you can start to build in and each season bring in some new seasonal pieces, bring in some statement pieces that are fun, bring in some fun jewelry or accessories. And I think starting with that core and just building on it is going to have you make the most return on your investment and then only have to buy a little bit each season.
Caroline (18:19.819)
So what is lighting you up with some of the clients you're working with right now?
Estelle Winsett (18:24.142)
my gosh. Well, one client that I'm working with, I'm actually doing a Facebook live with her tonight. She is a solo practitioner and she actually just recently went through gastric bypass. And so she knew she was going to be losing weight and we signed up to work together for a year. So I've been able to style her along the journey. And it's been so fun because so many women put themselves in style purgatory where they say,
You can't buy any new clothes until you lose 20 pounds, which is not motivating. In fact, it's punitive. And what I loved with this client is she wanted to feel good the whole way. And when you wear clothes that fit your body that you feel good in, it makes you more motivated to stay on a diet plan. And you can create a wardrobe that changes or evolves with you. Yes, if you lose 70 pounds like my client did, there are going to be certain pieces that you can't repurpose. But...
You know, you find those that will last the stand, you know, stand the test of a 20 pound span or 15 pound span. but it's the giving to yourself and not holding out on yourself because the message you're sending to your body is that your body is not worthy. You're not worthy. And you carry that energy when you're wearing clothes that are either way too tight or you're hiding behind really baggy clothes. You don't feel great about the way you present. And so it's this whole cascade of effects, I think.
I think what you wear has a ripple effect and it can either be a ripple effect in the wrong direction or it can be a ripple effect of feeling confident.
Caroline (19:56.331)
We have to be kind to our body and ourself.
Estelle Winsett (19:59.31)
Yes, yes, as women, we go through so many body changes. I mean, if you think about it, I mean, there's puberty where that body changes then. If you have kids, your body changes, then you go through the whole perimenopause and things that used to fit your body no longer do because your body has changed. And sometimes it's a matter of not even the pounds change you, but things are shifting. You know, what is going on? But when you know how to dress your body shape and you take the time, you can look at it all of those stages because you're worth that.
And it's not a moral failing to gain weight or have something change. It's just, it's a matter of life. And I think we should talk about it more openly. And so I'm a huge proponent of talking about perimenopause and menopause, cause that's where I am in my life, you know, going through the perimenopause, but no one talked about it. It was kind of like childbirth. Everyone knows rainbows and daisies. And you go through it, you're like, what is going on? You know, I think we should talk about these issues so that other women know they're not alone. And this is all part of it. And how can we come together and build each other?
Caroline (20:57.195)
I love that. Well, as we wrap up, how can our listeners find you?
Estelle Winsett (21:02.75)
I am on LinkedIn. so just, I'll give you the links to that, but I usually post about five times a week there. I have a private Facebook group, which has about 2000 women attorneys in it. It's awesome. Very, very fun. and then I'm on a few other social accounts. and then I have a website so I can give you all the links, but primarily the two social places where I'm in the most is, on LinkedIn and my Facebook group.
Caroline (21:28.651)
Thanks Estelle.
Estelle Winsett (21:30.062)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
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