Caroline (00:01.913)
Today I have Deborah Brown welcome with me. Deborah is a career goals guru and she helps individuals reach their career goals. She's an executive coach, LinkedIn influencer and the author of six books. So welcome Deborah.
Deborah (00:15.59)
Welcome. I'm very happy to be here.
Caroline (00:18.905)
So I'd love to hear your story. How did you get into the career coaching space?
Deborah (00:22.75)
Okay, well, I built my business 12 years in the evenings and the weekends. I was working in the corporate world. I was working for a Fortune 500 company. And at a certain point I just said, you know, I'm not happy here. I'm not doing work that I love. So I put myself on a journey to find a career I love. And sometimes your career chooses you and sometimes, you know, you choose it. And when it came to coaching, coaching chose me. There was a learning annex catalog.
that came to my home and I swear it flipped to the page on how to become a coach and I took classes and then I built my business in the evenings and the weekends and now it's over 20 years later and I'm in a profession I absolutely love.
Caroline (01:08.025)
Was it hard going from a corporate role into an entrepreneurial role?
Deborah (01:13.182)
Yes, yes and no. It was easy because the corporate world gives you a lot of skills that you can use in your day to day. It teaches you how to manage projects and how to manage your time and how to juggle things and finances. So that part was easy. The difficult part for me was having to do everything. So when you're in a corporate role, you have one job.
So maybe, because I was in marketing, that was my job, was marketing communication. So to go from marketing communications into having to run the business, how to set up the business, how to do the receivables, it just, that part was completely overwhelming for me.
Caroline (01:54.073)
So you've just completed your sixth book and you post on LinkedIn a good bit about your experiences with childhood trauma and how it could have impacted your professional career in a negative way. How were you able to work through that and reverse some of your thought patterns?
Deborah (02:04.306)
Yes.
Deborah (02:10.054)
I mean, that's a big question. I'm 58 years old, so this book is 58 years in the making. For many, many years, I wasn't able to talk about what happened to me as a child, but I put myself on a journey to get healthier because I wasn't healthy. And I got to the point where I just said, I can't go through life and I can't go through my career being unhealthy. So I didn't start out...
with the goal of writing the book, I started out to just be happier and healthier. And then at a certain point I got to the other side and I said, you know what, it's time. It's time to talk about it. And I started to talk about it. And then I said, it's time to talk about it. And they're big away. And I put it into a book.
Caroline (02:54.841)
So in your book description you state childhood trauma does different things to different people. Number one, some rise and become performers and number two, some fall and can't hold a job. So how do you choose the path of rising rather than falling?
Deborah (03:07.582)
That's right.
Deborah (03:15.134)
Well, I think the difference, the difference between someone who rises and falls is inner determination. You have to want it. Somebody else can't want it for you. You have to want it for you. And there got to a point where I just said, I want something different and a switch went off for me. And when that switch went off,
offer me, that set me on a journey. But the rising and the falling is different. There are people that do rise in the corporate world and they look like they have it all, but they're still affected by childhood trauma. So it's not just the people who can't hold a job or get fired alive. You have celebrities and athletes that have also been traumatized, but they look better on the outside. But the difference is inner determination and being a mess.
being a mess, like whether you're a top performer or you're someone who's having challenges in your career, you can still be a mess inside. And I was a mess.
Caroline (04:14.841)
So for someone that's listening to this podcast and can relate to what your, to the challenges, the inner challenges inside based on past traumas, how do you number one, recognize that? And number two, what's the first step that you take to healing that?
Deborah (04:30.558)
Okay, so, you know, once you decide, well, first, I think there's a switch that goes off and you become aware and you say, I don't want to live like this anymore. And you make a decision, you know, today's a brand new day. And then the rest is implementation. You start with healing. And in the book, I talk about many, many modalities, healing modalities that I use to get better. But I think the first place to start really is, is therapy.
and self -exploration because when you go through something traumatic, you don't really understand it. And just because it happened as a child, it doesn't go away over time. So it's a self -reflect, it's self -discovery, self -reflection, and you have to do that in a work first for understanding, and then you can take care of the outside. Then you can switch your career. Then you can do different things, but you have to really take care of you first.
Caroline (05:23.385)
You mentioned therapy as a first step, which I think I'm a huge advocate of and it's amazing and does so much, goes such a long way. It is a lot of work though, and time that you have to invest in it, but I think it's most definitely hands down worth it.
Deborah (05:37.214)
I love therapy. Therapy is great. Therapy is great. You get to go into someone's office or online and you get to talk about yourself and you walk out and you have understanding. And that's what I needed in the beginning. You know, what happened to me and is this my fault? And what I realized is it wasn't my fault. I had parents that did not know how to parent and it wasn't my responsibility as a child. You know,
to fix them or take care of them. They were supposed to take care of me and they were supposed to protect me. And it was freeing to get to that point where this wasn't my fault, but it was my responsibility to fix it. How you can't, at a certain point you can't blame what happened. You can't blame your parents. It has to be something from inside that says, I want something different and I will fix this.
Caroline (06:29.241)
It's easy to point the finger and press play the blame game, but at the end of the day, we're all responsible for our own lives and our own careers.
Deborah (06:37.028)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Caroline (06:40.505)
So if someone is struggling in their career, maybe they're at a pivotal point where they want to change careers or get promoted or do what's necessary within their career, but they have these things, childhood traumas that they have not healed or holding them back, how can or what do you suggest that they do to continue the path forward?
Deborah (07:00.958)
Okay, well, you know, the book, the book, it was my journey, everything that I did to get to the other side and be able to talk about it. The you know, the inner work is one piece and then the outer piece is goals, you know, having something to shoot for, you know, when I was growing up, I always had a project always had something I was working on, I didn't realize it was a goal. But having something bigger than myself, something else to focus on really truly made a difference. So choosing something.
choose a goal, maybe you want a new job, maybe you want a promotion, maybe you want a new career, and you start working towards that little by little by little. So you're doing your inner healing work, but you're also working on the outside slowly at a pace that is comfortable for you.
Caroline (07:46.681)
What if you're healing in one part faster than the other? Like maybe you're healing with the inner work, but the outer work, the promotion hasn't come yet, or your dream job isn't happening yet.
Deborah (07:57.022)
Well, things always take longer than we like. So I would go on the premise that it's going to take longer than you like. So it's really important to have that vision of what you want and have that clarity and then to break it into smaller pieces and then to work on it, work on it, work on it. You know, it's like when you have someone come over, it's going to do some construction on your house. If they tell you one price, you double it.
If they tell you, you know, two weeks, it's four weeks. And it's the same thing in the workplace. Like when you go on an interview, they say, oh, we'll get back to you next week, you know, double that time, triple that time. And this way you can relax into the process and then you just keep going, keep going. And that you can only control you. You can only control you. So you just keep doing you, you keep working on you, you keep working towards that goal, you keep your eye on the prize, keep your eye on the prize.
at a certain point it absolutely positively will manifest. It might not be on your timetable, but I believe that it will come true.
Caroline (08:57.017)
I love that you just brought the manifestation piece because I feel like if you don't see yourself in that seat or doing that thing or holding that job or starting that business, it's never going to happen.
Deborah (09:07.678)
Yes, if you can't see it, you can't do it. And the clarity piece is so important, right? And then the declaration, you know, I want a new job, I want a new career, I want a promotion. You know, it's freeing. It's freeing when you say that declaration. That is your switch. Then you go into logistics. Like you spoke about getting a promotion. So as a career coach, if someone said I wanted a promotion, you know, there's several things that we would do. Like first, I would say, what is the job that you want?
I would, and I would have the person get a job description and we would go through the job description and we would identify some gaps. And what do you need to do? Do you need to take on different projects? You need to possibly get, get some additional classes. You know, I would have you get all of your accomplishments together. I would have you research the salaries of the jobs that you want. So by the time you walk into a conversation with your boss, you're ready to go. Here's what I've done. Here's, here's how I'm ready for this job. Here's what.
the marketplace is paying for this role. So there's a getting ready for it and every goal is a getting ready for it, but it starts with what does it look like and what do I want?
Caroline (10:17.401)
that you brought that due diligence piece up because I think a lot of times in the workplace people just expect to be promoted or think that they're entitled to XYZ job because they've been at the company for 10 years or five years or whatever that number looks like and you really have to do your due diligence and improve your skill set to be qualified for that job and then you also have to ask for it.
Deborah (10:40.958)
Yes, you have to ask for it. We wait. We wait for someone to notice us, especially women. Men are a little bit more bold. Men will just come out and ask for it, but women, we wait until someone says, oh, you've done a good job. And that just doesn't always work. You have to advocate for yourself. You have to be your own advocate because no one else is going to advocate for you. Now, that doesn't mean you're walking around the workplace and you're bragging, but you're sharing a project.
You have a conversation with someone, oh, let me tell you about this. Oh, let me tell you about that. That is the way you get interest. That's how you build influence. That's how you get support. That's how you get introduced to other projects. It's really through conversation.
Caroline (11:25.913)
In your experience, you just mentioned the female and the women not asking and not being as bold asking what they want to. Do you think that has to do with any childhood traumas?
Deborah (11:36.51)
I think women in general, we are people pleasers and we like to be liked. So I think it's hard for us to ask anyway. I think that men definitely ask more than women. I mean, that's just the impression I've gotten through conversations I've had with people and things that I've read. I think the childhood trauma doesn't help because what happens in the workplace is you don't feel safe. So if you don't feel safe in the workplace, then you will not feel safe.
you know, asking for anything.
Caroline (12:10.649)
So if I'm a female, well I am a female obviously, and I'm kind of going through these challenges of learning new habits, learning new ways of thinking about things, in addition to therapy, what would you suggest I can do to advocate for myself so that I can put myself in a forward trajectory with my career?
Deborah (12:14.47)
Mm -hmm.
Deborah (12:31.974)
Okay, well therapy I think is wonderful. I think self -care is important. You know, taking care of yourself, working out, eating well, sleeping well, right? And then the rest really is all planning and logistics. So as you're going along in your career, it's important to document things. You know, document your successes, document...
thank yous, compliments, things that you've done. Because I also help people with resumes. So what happens is we were doing a resume update and I asked people what they've done and they don't know. And then sometimes we have to update jobs for years ago. Like, what's the impact? How did you leave this job better than you found it? And they don't know. They don't have the results. So keep track of the results. You know, connect with your accomplishments. This way, it's always top of mind. So it makes it easier to have conversations. Like if you can see it as a part of.
you know, your day to day, then you can talk about it. And you want to really do this on a regular basis.
Caroline (13:35.033)
just brought that up too about resumes not being a task list because as a recruiter if I'm looking at a resume that's just a task list versus a resume that has accomplishments and KPIs and actual hard numbers of things that have been achieved I'm gonna go with that resume all day.
Deborah (13:52.03)
Yes. And you know, since you're talking about childhood trauma, since we're talking about that, you know, as, you know, as a recruiter, you, you will meet people and you probably have met people that have childhood trauma and you know, maybe they're not perfect or maybe they're a little shy or they're a little introverted. And, you know, there's a part of me that wants to change the conversation from, you know, what's wrong with you to what happened to you, what happened to you, you know, like the workplace to have a little bit more.
empathy if you see someone is struggling versus judgment, you know, that there's judgment, judgment versus empathy, like what is really truly going on. I think it's harder for childhood trauma survivors to even interview because the whole process is just completely overwhelming.
Caroline (14:37.593)
because I am with you 1 million percent about that and it should never be the narrative of what's wrong with you, what happened to you. And even if you don't feel safe talking about it in that workplace environment or with that recruiter or with that manager, you know, at least being allowed, you know, feeling safe enough to say there's something going on with me.
Deborah (14:58.302)
Yes, yes. And in the book, I have a chapter that says companies, childhood trauma survivors need your support. You know, bring trauma informed programs into your company. Like if you see something, then you want to help someone because there's a lot of trauma. You know, let's just put childhood trauma aside. There's a tremendous amount of trauma in the workplace. If you think about what's going on in the world globally, people are bringing that trauma.
into the workplace. So it's, it's, it's segueing from, oh, it's just this one person to there's a whole group of people that are really truly traumatized and suffering in a big way.
Caroline (15:39.225)
So as we wrap up, how can our listeners find you?
Deborah (15:42.078)
Oh, okay. So my website is surpassyourdreams .com, surpassyourdreams .com. And then, oh, I happen to have a copy of my book, sit right here. And that is Childhood Trauma, Some Rise, Some Fall, How to Be One of the Lucky Ones to Get Back Up. And it's on Amazon. Like I said, this book is 58 years in the making, and I put my heart and soul into it. It's probably the most courageous and most vulnerable thing.
that I've ever done to put myself out there this way. And I really truly hope that the book makes a difference for a lot of people.
Caroline (16:17.623)
Thank you, Deborah.
Deborah (16:19.294)
Thank you, it was wonderful to be here.
